that is if there's no deal. so what could a deal include to stop that from happening? well, republicans want changes to medicare and medicaid, cuts they say will keep both of them solvent for future generations. in exchange, one possible deal would eliminate deductions for the wealthy, maybe even the very popular mortgage deduction. and while republicans have been more open to revenue, that does not mean tax rate increases. many democrats insist that tax rates for the wealthiest americans absolutely have to go up. but they don't necessarily agree on how much they should rise. let me bring in usa today's washington bureau chief, susan page, and ryan grim. good morning to both of you. >> hey, good morning. >> good morning. >> we've laid out some of the basics there and warren buffett was out this morning talking about taxing the wealthy. he says there should be a minimum tax on millionaires. take a listen. >> i think it would have a great

effect in terms of the morale of the middle class who have seen themselves paying high payroll taxes, income taxes, and then they've watched guys like me end up paying a rate that's below that, you know, paid by the people in my office. >> you know, he was the one that in a way started all this, susan, because he talked about he shouldn't pay a lower tax rate than his secretary. now he's saying that taxes should rise, maybe for people making over $500,000 a year. a lot of republicans loved him for his business sense, but have they stopped listening to him now? >> well, and of course, if you raise the minimum tax on millionaires, i think americans would be all for that. the trouble is, it doesn't really raise you enough money, not the kind of money we're talking about. and even going down to $500,000, the reason that the level's been set at $250,000 per household by the white house is because that gets you real money. and i think that's the dilemma we have now. the things that are easiest to do like raise taxes on millionaires or people that make

$500,000 or more a year, don't get you up to the numbers you nid at this point. >> we've seen republicans break with grover norquist and put revenues on the table. on the other side of that, here's what a few democrats are saying about entitlements. >> i think people are dreaming if they think we're going to get a deal on entitlements in three weeks. that's just not going to happen. and i think it would be irresponsible to try to come up with any approach to entitlement reform in such a compressed period of time. >> yes or no, do you support raising the retirement age? >> no, i do not support raising the retirement age. >> is that likely to be a bigger sticking point than revenue? or do we not know yet? >> well, i think that's the critical question facing democrats here. are they going to cave and allow, you know, the new deal and the great society programs to be a part of this supposed grand bargain? or are they not? as of now, they are not part of the deal.

this is about defense cuts, discretionary spending, and it's about tax cuts. only if the democrats agree to bring in the programs for the elderly and poor and middle class would they become part of the discussion. and there's a strong faction among democrats who are saying do not do that. you know, social security is not part of this problem. so it should not be part of the discussion. harry reid, in fact, has been extremely firm on that. he said i will not be part of discussions that include social security as part of this bargain. so if they stick to that, then they won't be. >> yeah, there's so many moving pieces. susan, today, the president's going to meet with small business owners. friday he's going to montgomery, pennsylvania, to visit a small business that will be impacted. very campaign like stuff. what's he trying to do here? >> yeah, who is he not meeting with this week? that would be congressional -- that would be members of congress, especially those house

republicans would be the critical partners on this. so he's trying to take a very different approach than he took in the first term and the early go rounds on this. and that is to build some public support tap on the good feeling from his re-election to give -- as ryan pointed out. there's some democrats including powerful ones like harry reid that say medicare and medicaid have to be off the table. those democrats do not include president obama who has made it clear he's open to a discussion about medicare and medicaid. and you usually would think there's not enough time to do serious entitlement reform. but the fact is, we've been talking about this set of issues for a year and more, lots of blueprints out there, including simpson/bowles. i think it is possible that will be part of a deal that is reached before the end of the year. >> this morning, dick durbin didn't really want to get into specifics. you aren't hearing a lot of numbers from a lot of people, but did say he was encouraged. take a listen. >> if i sound bland and general at this point, it's exactly to the point he made. when the doors close and we sit

down with revenue on one side, entitlements on the other, then we get specific and come up with a bipartisan plan. >> ryan, to susan's point of who is the president talking to, is this something to be hashed out between president obama and john boehner. >> i guess so. because dick durbin himself has been confusing in what he's been saying publicly. on sunday he said sure medicare and medicaid can be part of the discussion. today he's giving a speech where it should not be part of the conversation. there this morning he's saying once we get into a room, we can start talking about it. and there are ways that i think liberals would agree to do medicare and medicaid. you know, if you're tinkering on the supplier side like, you know, say medical device companies or something, or reimporting drugs from canada, or allowing medicare to negotiate, or reduce price, or add a public option to health care reform. you know, that would save money. so there are things that

democrats would do when it comes to entitlements that would save money. and maybe that's what dick durbin is talking about, but those are the exact opposite of the things that republicans would want to do when it comes to entitlements. so harry reid's strategy might be the easiest one. just say, look, this is not part of the conversation. we're talking a about the wars, the pentagon, talking about taxes, let's stick to that. look, you want to raise taxes and lower defense spending, we'll do that. if not, then p we go off this supposed cliff and then democrats are negotiating from an even stronger hand. >> i want to bring in senator jeanne shaheen. i'm wondering what you think about what he had to say, raise taxes or lower spending or going off the fiscal cliff. where are you? and how do you feel about tinkering with medicare and medicaid? >> look, i think we've got to put aside all of the sacred cows

and really got to be willing, as dick durbin said, sit down and negotiate and come up with a plan, a long-term plan that's balanced, that looks at the domestic side of the budget, the defense side, the mandatory programs, and the revenue side. and if we're willing to do that, then i think we can get an agreement. but i think to go to the tax issue that you were talking about earlier, there are really two issues there. one is the amount of revenue that needs to be raised. but the other question is a fairness question. and if we're asking people to accept the sacrifices that they're going to be making if we're cutting spending in areas that are going to really affect middle class families and others, then we've also got to be willing to ask those who are doing the best in this country to share in that sacrifice. and what i've heard from people in new hampshire is they're willing to do that. they're willing to agree to share in the burden if they think it's fair. >> if you look at the numbers, and i think everybody can agree

if you raise these taxes on the richest, you know, americans, it's not going to close the gap. it's not going to solve the problem. but to warren buffett's point, he thinks it would be very important to the morale of middle class americans to know that they're carries more of their fair share. do you agree with that? >> i do. it's not just a revenue issue, it's also a fairness issue. and people i've heard from in new hampshire say i don't mind sharing some of the cost of dealing with our debt and deficits, but i want to feel like if i'm going to do that that it's going to be fair that everybody is going to be part of sharing in that burden. >> is there something for you, senator, that's an absolute nonstarter? >> well, i think we do need to take social security off the table. because social security has not contributed to the debt and the deficits. and so we do need to fix it for the long-term, but that's a different discussion than the one that we're having about those programs that are actually costing. so i think we do have to look at

the cost of health care long-term because that's going to contribute to the debt. >> i also want to ask you about susan rice, she is meeting with senators mccain, graham, and ayott. do you think she has explaining to do with what she said about benghazi? and would you support her if she is nominated for secretary of state? >> she's not yet been nominated. so i'm going to look carefully at her credentials, which i think qualify her very well to be nominated. i think she's done a very good job at the united nations. i do think she's explained that what she said about benghazi was the intelligence that she was given. and she'll have an opportunity as she meets with senators to further explain that position. >> do you think they're open to giving her a fair hearing? because some pretty tough things have been said about her. >> well, it's unfortunate that much of that discussion has gotten so personal. she does need to get a fair hearing. i'm hopeful senator mccain is a

patriot, i think he'll give her a fair hearing. i'm certain my colleague from new hampshire, and of lindsey graham. so i do believe that it's in the country's interest to give her a fair hearing and to let her explain the situation, the position that she took on benghazi. >> senator, good to have you on the program. thank you. >> nice to be with you. >> let's go back to the strategy on the part of the white house. and obviously we're in this mess because they couldn't make a deal the last time. if the president's backup strategy is, and susan, this is what the l.a. times is reporting that they have to go off the fiscal cliff, they're willing to paint the gop as villains. i'm wondering about that strategy and does it appeal to moderate americans who clearly just want something done? >> well, you know, every time we do a poll and talk to americans, they say they want a deal, want both sides to compromise, to give a little. and i wonder to what degree the white house saying they are willing to go off the fiscal cliff is a, you know, a strategy

that you would have right at this point to hold the feet to the fire of your -- of the other side. because we know there are real consequences to failing to make a deal. economic consequences, consequences for our fragile recovery, and the sense that even after an election, washington isn't able to govern on the biggest issues facing the country. >> well, there are also people who argue and i know you know this, ryan. this really isn't a cliff, it's more of a slope. and if we go off the fiscal cliff, it's not like on january 1st, everything's going to get bad. and so maybe there is time to -- to -- i don't know if you want to say play that game or use that strategy, but to hold firm and decide that then when the pressure is really on you might be playing with even a stronger hand and obviously a new congress, as well, potentially. >> yeah, that's right. the fiscal cliff is a bluff. now, defaulting on the debt, that's something real.

you could spark some global financial crisis. but the fiscal cliff, people are going to wake up january 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and nothing substantial will have changed. because these are cuts that are phased in, it'll take a long time for the withholding to start hitting people's paychecks, and even after withholding starts hitting people's paychecks, you're not going to see an immediate change in spending that would have some type of immediate and cataclysmic effect on the economy. what does immediately change is december you have the bush tax rates in effect. january, you have the clinton tax rates in effect. democrats are better off negotiating from the clinton rates and then they're saying, okay, look, here are the rates, we're going to bring this down, we're going to bring this down. we're going to leave these how they are. how would you like to vote for this? are you going to oppose this? and people didn't really vote for compromise necessarily this election. they overwhelmingly elected the

president, they gave the senate to democrats, and they voted for more democrats in the house. now, just because they're gerrymandered and a tea party house doesn't reflect what voters said on election day. so, you know, and as obama keeps pointing out, more people support higher taxes on the rich than even supported obama himself. so the mandate here is clear. it's for higher taxes on the rich and it's not for messing around with entitlements right now. >> ryan grim, susan page, thanks. >> thanks. >> thank you. and we are keeping our eye out for you on ambassador susan rice to discuss her remarks on the benghazi consulate. she'll be meeting with john mccain, lindsey graham, and kelly ayott. we're keeping our eye on that and we will keep you posted.

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a state senator from idaho is now getting behind a plan that's been circulating on tea party blogs. calling for states that supported mitt romney to refuse to participate in the electoral college. a move they believe would change the results of the election. it's the kind of radical talk that turned off a lot of voters in the last election, but the wall street journal reports, they are regrouping, searching for candidates who can win in 2014. i'm joined by amy cramer who is chair of the tea party express. good morning. >> good morning. how are you? >> good to see you. let me ask you about the state senator's proposal. do you think this election can and should be constitutionally overturned? >> no. the people spoke and we have the

results of the election. it stands. we need to like you said regroup and look at what we need to do better moving forward. but the election's not going to be overturned. >> many tea party activists point the finger of blame at mitt romney for the group's poor showing. tell me what you've looked at in terms of this past election and what lessons have you learned from your losses? >> well, you know, there's plenty of blame to go around. tea party candidates lost, moderates lost, there's plenty of blame to go around. i think the republican party has a branding problem. you know, when we -- when we did not have the same number of voters that turned out in 2008 for mccain, that's a problem. and we need to do a better job, the republican party. and we're not an arm of the republican party, although we did support mitt romney, the majority of us did. the republican party needs to do a better job at reaching out to minorities and to the youth and getting people involved. we need to -- we need to make people understand what we're about, the tea party movement is

about fiscal responsibility, limited government, free markets. and if people would stick to those issues like we did in 2010, that's why we were so victorious. but we're not going away. we're going to continue to fight and not back down and we're still focused on those same things. we're not focused on foreign policy or social issues. >> well, it is interesting that there are people who are not particularly members of the tea party who are republicans. john mccain among them who said we need to stop talking about things like abortion. let me play to remind people what he said over the weekend. >> would allow people to have those opinions and respect those opinions. i'm proud of my pro-life position and record. but if someone disagrees with me, i respect your views. >> are those kinds of issues being brought up hurting republicans? >> well, this is the thing, you know, you're never going to get everybody to agree on those issues, not even in the same party. the democrats don't all agree on them and the republicans don't

agreen o them. that's why we've stuck to the fiscal issues about reining in this out of control spending in washington, getting a balanced budget, and creating a pro-growth environment where businesses will create jobs again. washington is the problem, it's not the solution. and we need to shrink the size of government and get the federal government out of our lives. and when we stick to that message like we did in 2010, i think we'll be more victorious. >> i'm also curious, i've heard two different things from people who consider themselves supporters of the tea party. one is that absolutely, unequivocally, our candidates, meaning tea party candidates, have to stick to these very conservative principles, particularly regarding finances. on the other side, they say a republican, even a moderate republican is better than a democrat. and i know that there are conservative groups mounting, considering mounting challenges to republican senators they think aren't conservative enough, people like lindsey

graham, lamar alexander, saxby chambliss. are you in favor of challenging senators like that? >> well, you know, tea party express, we have gone out and we have launched primary challenges. there's no doubt about that. and that shows that if nothing else, we're not an arm of the republican party because we have launched those primary challenges. but we want constitutional conservatives, fiscal conservatives that are willing to live by the principles of the tea party movement of fiscal responsibility, limited government, free markets. and so if we have somebody that is a republican in name only, a rhino and they stand with the democrats and vote with the democrats more than they do with the republican party, of course there's, you know, a chance they're going to be primaried. the bottom line is, we would rather have somebody -- we'd rather have a democrat in that seat that votes with their party than a republican in the seat voting with the party -- with the democratic party in watering down the conservative brand. that's not -- >> let me ask you quickly --

>> we need to be strong conservatives. >> are you concerned about the number of republicans who have started to move away from their pledge with grover norquist? >> well, this is what i would say. is that pledge that these members of congress signed, the pledge is not to grover norquist, the pledge is to their constituents. grover norquist is doing nothing but shining the light on them willing to break their promise. and we've seen what happens when somebody makes a promise, you know, george bush i broke his promise and lost, he lost his second term. so grover's doing nothing but shining the light on that. the pledge is to the constituents of their state. the people that they represent. and so we need to keep that in mind. it's not a pledge to grover. but at the end of the day, you can't raise enough revenue from increasing taxes on the rich and all americans to cover the spending. everybody's talking about increasing the tax -- tax revenue on the rich. why aren't we talking about cutting the spending?

how about, first of all, we start with a budget that harry reid under his leadership in the senate has not passed a budget in over three years. so to cut, you have to have a budget. and then let's start with the cuts that were promised to reagan and george h.w. bush that never came through. when they gave the tax increases and the cuts never came through. let's start there and let's go forward. >> amy kremer, thanks for coming on the program. >> thanks for having me. more protests in egypt. hours before a huge rally against mohamed morsi. many had been camping out for the demonstration against the president who issued several decrees last week that gives him almost absolute power. twins. i didn't see them coming. i have obligations. cute obligations, but obligations. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio.

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well, what could be more important? so this year, every hasbro toy donated to toys for tots will be powered by duracell. happy holidays. duracell with duralock. trusted everywhere. right now susan rice is behind closed doors facing some of her harsh critics on capitol hill. she will attempt to explain her comments about the benghazi terror attack to senators mccain, graham, and ayotte, three senators that could cause trouble for her nomination. >> she asked to meet with us and i'll ask her about her role in benghazi. but the more i know, the more upset i am that the consulate was even open on september 11th.

>> i'm joined by msnbc contributor and by buzz feed contributor and former obama campaign aid blake zeff. blake, let me start with you, i think the key thing we just heard was that she asked for this meeting. what do you imagine is going on right now behind those closed doors? >> well, i actually spent some time in capitol hill working for chuck schumer many moons ago, and in that time president george w. bush was the president, and it wasn't all that unusual for presidential appointees to seek a meeting with outspoken democrats, potential critics -- >> these were more than potential critics, these are people who have been pretty tough on her already. >> for sure. and so susan rice is smartly bringing the active cia director with her to answer those questions. i'd be surprised if it's not civil or collegial as these

things tended to be in my experience. if it isn't, that would be an exception worth noting. >> now that these meetings are happening, is there any doubt in your mind she's the leading contender? robert? >> of course she's the leading contender. no question about it -- yes, of course, can you hear me? >> yeah. >> hello? >> hi. >> of course, she's a leading contender, the reason why is -- because she has the confidence of the president, she certainly has the relationship and the experience. look, there's only two people really that are in play here, that is senator john kerry and susan rice. there's no question about it she's qualified. however, i'll remind you and the audience that senators do have a constitutional role in this, and that is to advise and consent. the question is whether or not she's able to alleviate the concerns to pass confirmation. >> i'm not sure we have a little bit of a delay with robert there, but i apologize for that. but i spoke with jeanne shaheen a short time ago. and here's what she had to say about some of the republican critics of susan rice. >> it's unfortunate that much of

that discussion has gotten so personal. she does need to get a fair hearing. i'm hopeful senator mccain is a patriot, i think he'll give her a fair hearing. i certainly think that of my colleague from new hampshire, senator ayotte and of lindsey graham. >> do you think she'll get a fair hearing? how tough will the questioning be? >> well, look, it seems clear there are some republicans that want to make an issue out of this. the unfortunate part for republicans, they don't have the votes. robert's right, they do have the responsibility to advise and consent, i don't think that dr. rice's appointment, should it happen, would be in jeopardy, but does look like there are republicans o out there who want to score some points, maybe they're bitter after losing the election in a big, big way. but it's clear some doing some rigorous questioning, but ultimately i do think that dr. rice's nomination is not in jeopardy.

>> robert, the fact they came out and john mccain in particular, so early against susan rice and raised so many questions, are you surprised they picked this fight? >> no, not really, republicans have always been very, very vocal on benghazi, also been very, very vocal in terms of how this administration has handled some foreign policy issues. i'm not surprised by that. i'll go back to my original point, this is their job to ask those questions. the president has the right to be able to appoint or nominate who he chooses. at the end of the day what we want is really the truth. and i'm not suggesting she's not telling the truth, but what i am suggesting is perhaps through this process we'll be able to uncover all of the facts to make sure that both sides are comfortable moving forward. >> well, if rice is nominated for secretary of state, where does that leave john kerry? to your point and chuck todd reported this yesterday that these really are the only two candidates being confirmed. there is word, blake, he would

probably become the next defense secretary, although he's never made any secret of the fact he wants to be secretary of state. what about that political difficulty to maneuver through? >> yeah, it's a bit of a puzzle, right? so kerry clearly wanted to be secretary of state. there was some thought he was not going to get it because if he were to be sent to washington as a cabinet secretary, that would open up his senate seat and democrats might be worried that scott brown would be able to pull that senate seat from the democrats, but then to move him over to the secretary of defense would still create that same problem and it's not really the position that kerry wants. it's an interesting jigsaw puzzle we're looking at, and you might have a difficult -- susan rice is having a tough time for secretary of state, i wouldn't be shocked see republicans make an issue of john kerry giving everything we've dealt with with his presidential bid. >> good to see both of you, thank you. >> thanks. also making news this morning, new york governor andrew cuomo is asking the federal government for $42 billion for recovery and rebuilding saying hurricane

sandy was worse than katrina in some ways. the governor said while more people were killed by katrina, sandy had a bigger economic impact because of the dense population of the new york city area. cuomo has invited house speaker john boehner to come to new york to tour the damage. a peanut processing plant linked to salmonella won't we open today as planned. the fda stopped operations at sunland incorporated after 41 people in 20 states were sickened by tainted peanut butter. yesterday, the fda suspended sunland's registration preventing the company from producing or distributing any food. was the death of former palestinian leader yasser arafat murder? was he poisoned? he died suddenly of a stroke, supposedly, in 2004, but a swiss lab said this summer that it found traces of a radioactive substance on his clothing. the u.s. soldier accused of

giving state secrets to wikileaks will speak for the first time since his arrest in 2010. bradley manning will testify today at a pre-trial hearing. he is expected to talk about his treatment, saying he's already been punished by being in solitary confinement. you're not going to believe this. the pope mobile used by pope john paul ii on his visit to ireland in 1979 is now going to be used as a party rental. the "irish times" reports the newly refurbished vehicle will be used for bachelor parties and corporate gigs. seats 14 people including one person who can sit in the pope's chair. it costs $325 an hour to rent. and call it a big oops for china's communist party newspaper, "the people's daily" ran a 55-page photo spread on its website in tribute to kim jong-un citing a report by the

onion. apparently it was lost on them that the onion is satire. the chinese paper went on to call kim a devastatingly handsome round-faced heart throb. as our politicians wrangle over tax increases, outrage in france over a proposed 160% tax hike on beer. brewers and customers say it's not fair because the tax is only being leveed on beer, not on other alcoholic drinks like wine. the government says this is a public health issue because more people abuse beer than abuse wine. opponents say it's just that wine makers have more political clout. and cyber sales soaring. cnbc'smandy drury is here with what's moving your money. final numbers aren't in yet, but the early numbers show a pretty great cyber monday, mandy. >> many sites showed really big sales despite the busy online shopping sales leading up to cyber monday. here are the numbers we've got

so far. online sales at the top retailers were up by just over 28% from the same time last year. and the other good thing here, chris, is that websites were better prepared, as well. there were no early reports of crashes or major slowdowns on overloaded websites. the kind of thing we saw a little bit of last year. as for the two most searched for products through most of cyber monday, the kindle fire and ugg boots, of course i grew up with ugg boots in australia and now all of a sudden they're this hot item. >> we got in a big fight about them in the meeting this morning. they're ugly, they're warm. apparently you can't get your hands on the new nintendo wii u. >> that's right. they sold more than 400,000 of the new wii u video game system, it was only released on november 18th. really only recently here in the u.s. the product has often sold out.

as soon as stores replenish the shelves, apparently they get snapped up because of the high demand. if you're wondering what this is. it's a new high-def game console priced at $299 for an 8-gigabyte model or $349 for a 32-gigabyte model. and it has that wireless motion sensor game pad with a 6.2-inch touch screen. it's all just gobbly goop to me, i'm not of that generation. >> mandy drury, thanks so much. >> thank you. and as we get closer to new year's eve, we found our best of 2012 list. it's bing's most searched celebrities. i don't know, i'm really not with it. i was surprised by this. number five, lindsay lohan, number four, rihanna, miley cyrus is number three, justin bieber, you might expect that, guess who number one is? the most searched celeb 2012 on

bing, kim kardashian. sfx- "sounds of african drum and flute" look who's back. again? it's embarrassing it's embarrassing! we can see you carl. we can totally see you. come on you're better than this...all that prowling around. yeah, you're the king of the jungle. have you thought about going vegan carl? hahaha!! you know folks who save hundreds of dollars by switching to geico sure are happy. how happy are they jimmy? happier than antelope with night-vision goggles. nice! get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. with less chronic osteoarthritis pain. imagine living your life with less chronic low back pain. imagine you, with less pain. cymbalta can help. cymbalta is fda-approved to manage chronic musculoskeletal pain. one non-narcotic pill a day, every day, can help reduce this pain. tell your doctor right away if your mood worsens,

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mom, are those my jeans? [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios parental stress may be harming your children. data from a new study reveals that parents who have high stress are more likely to raise obese children. the main reason, stressed parents are more likely to serve fast food in addition to high-calorie convenience food. capitol hill's newly elected freshman class is making history. nine lawmakers are turning to the house after either losing re-election previously or retiring from office. that's the highest number of former members to return at the

same time in modern history. and i'm joined now by one of those comeback kids, making the return to politics, after 32 years. minnesota congressman-elect rick nolan. good morning and congratulations. >> good morning. and thanks for the congrats. i'm delighted to be here. >> well, there are few opportunities for a second act in american politics. the conventional wisdom goes, and rarely have members of congress, frankly, been less popular than they are now. so what made you want to come back? >> well, you know, it's a combination of things. one is -- >> and can i just interrupt you for one second, congressman? i want to go to john mccain who is coming out of the meeting with susan rice. let's listen in. >> -- the discussion with ambassador rice and the deputy director of the cia. we are significantly troubled by many of the answers that we got and some that we didn't get

concerning evidence that was overwhelming leading up to the attack on our consulate. the tragic deaths of four brave americans, and whether ambassador rice was prepared or informed sufficiently in order to give the american people a correct depiction of the events that took place. it is clear that the information that she gave the american people was incorrect when she said it was a spontaneous demonstration triggered by a hateful video. it was not and there was compelling evidence at the time that was certainly not the case, including statements by libyans as well as other americans who are fully aware that people don't bring mortars and rocket-propelled grenades to spontaneous demonstrations. >> senator -- >> bottom line, i'm more

disturbed now than i was before that the 16th september explanation about how americans died in benghazi, libya, by ambassador rice i think does not do justice to the reality at the time and in hindsight clearly was completely wrong. but here's the key, in realtime, it was a statement disconnected from reality. if anybody had been looking at the threats coming out of benghazi, libya, it was jump out at you, this was an al qaeda storm in the making. i'm very disappointed in our intelligence community, i think they failed in many ways, but with a little bit of inquiry and curiosity, i think it would be pretty clear that to explain this episode as related that created a mob that turned into a riot was far filled.

and at the end of the day, we're going to get to the bottom of this. we have to have a system that we can trust. and if you don't know what happened, just say you don't know what happened. people can push you to give explanations and you can say i don't want to give bad information. here's what i can tell you -- the american people got bad information on 16 september, they got bad information from president obama days after, and the question is, should they have been giving the information at all? if you can do nothing but give bad information, isn't it better to give no information at all? so my belief is, not only is the information bad and i'm more convinced than ever that it was bad, it was unjustified to give the scenario as presented by ambassador rice and president obama three weeks before an

election. >> senator, can you support the secretary of state nominee? >> i want to say that i'm more troubled today knowing having met with the acting director of the cia and ambassador rice because it's certainly clear from the beginning that we knew that those with ties to al qaeda were involved in the attack on the embassy. and clearly the impression that was given, the information given to the american people was wrong. in fact, ambassador rice said today absolutely it was wrong. i don't understand the cia said clearly that information was wrong and they knew by the 22nd that it was wrong, yet they have not cleared that up with the american people to date in coming forward and saying they were wrong including the president of the united states having parroted also talked about the fact this was a reaction to the video, the attacks in benghazi. and what troubles me also is

that obviously the changes made to the unclassified talking points were misleading, but just to be clear, when you have a position where you're ambassador to the united nations, you go well beyond unclassified talking points in your daily preparation responsibilities for that job, and that's troubling to me, as well. why she wouldn't have asked -- i'm the person that doesn't know anything about this, i'm gong on every single show. but in addition, the fact that it's not just the talking points that were unclassified, but clearly as part of her responsibility as an ambassador to the united nations she reviewed much more than that. >> senator, do you support the secretary of state nominee? >> before anybody can make an intelligence decision about promoting someone involved in benghazi, we need to do a lot more -- to this date, we don't have the fbi interviews of the

survivors conducted one or two days after the attack. we don't have the basic information about what was said of the night of the attack that's been shared with congress as of this date. so i remember the john bolton episode pretty well. our democratic friends felt like john bolton didn't have the information needed to make an informed decision about ambassador bolton's qualification. john bolton to be ambassador, and democrats dug in their heels saying we're not going to vote, we're not going to consider this nomination until we get basic answers to our concerns. the concerns i have are greater today than they were before and we're not even close to getting the basic answers. >> can you support her -- >> i have many more questions that need to be answered. >> and so after meeting with susan rice who is presumed the front runner and expected to be

nominated, perhaps, for the secretary of state position, no progress on the part of those three republican senators. senator mccain saying he's significantly troubled by the answers, senator graham, more disturbed now than i was before and senator kelly ayotte also talking about being more troubled today than she was before this meeting. let me bring back rick nolan and throw you right into it. what do you make of all of this? >> well, chris, perhaps you don't know this, but i lived in the middle east for four years and have studied the language and the culture. and it was well known to anybody over there that the libyans had sent more than any other country. so in my judgment, you know, susan rice said what she was cleared to say by the cia and her performance and job has been done excellently in my judgment. but having said that, there

obviously was a film, there were riots and mobs, and it appears to me that al qaeda seized on an opportunity to launch an attack. and those were young men who were trained in live combat and knew exactly what they were doing. and in my judgment, we should've had a better precaution to protect the people at our embassy there than in place. >> which, of course is an issue separate of whether she could become secretary of state. is there anything she has done or said that you think should be a diskwfr? >> no, absolutely not. >> i think she's done a superb job and said what she was authoriz authorized to say. >> i'm sorry our time was cut short by that news conference. come back another time, would you? >> i'd love to do that. thank you. >> thanks for being with us. thomas roberts is up next. good morning, thomas.

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embattled u.n. ambassador susan rice goes to capitol hill to face her hashershest critics. wrapping up just moments ago, and they took place at rice's own request, and with acting cia director, mike morel by her side. they ripped into rice for weeks because of the ju r interview she gave in the aftermath of the attack in benghazi, libya. saying she was unfit to serve as the next secretary of state. and if you look at the remarks a short while, rice seemed to fail and change many of their minds. all three, mccain, graham and

ayotte taking to the microphone to say they are more troubled now after learning more details about what happened than what they've been briefed on before. we're going to dig down on this and get to more of it right now with our political power panel for this tuesday. jonathan capehart, susan delpersio. great to have you here. and we were watching that a moment ago. each of the senators came out saying they were more troubled by what they learned by rice and by mike morel being in this meeting about what was known at the time. it seems they've created bigger problems moving forward. >> well, let's be honest, they have dug in. the washington post editorial board called it bizarre. and i think it is bizarre. the fact is that susan rice went out there with the information she had at the time, intelligent assessments change over the course of investigations.

and republicans have just decided to kind of basically wage this on political terms. and it's unfortunate because the reality is they haven't -- we haven't looked at the objectives the administration have laid out here. what happened, who's responsible? and making sure it never happens again. not relitigating something that happened on talk shows. >> all right, not to relitigate it, but at the request of susan rice, she went there to meet with these critics. mike morel at her side because petraeus, the former cia director can't be there. jonathan, the one thing that the three of these senators really tried to impart was the fact susan rice admitted she was wrong during the time she gave the interviews that she was wrong. and she went into this meeting and stated being wrong. that's a big admission. >> that is -- well, that is a